Awe
Episode #0003
Intro / Outro 0:00
Monday marinade with Mer 'n Nay. A recipe for your mind. Soak it up!
Naomi (Nay) 0:10
But I am genuinely in awe of you I mean, that is
Meredith (Mer) 0:13
well, I am in awe of you!
Naomi (Nay) 0:14
I actually want to start with something we talked about our last conversation, which is, you know that words matter and you were telling me about like Lacanian analysis and, and, you know, so before we got on a chat here, I typed in, you know, etymology of awe, and I fell on the floor. Because it's once again, one of these words, where, like "care", where I'm like, why? I don't know why it bothers me. But you want to know what the root word of awe is? It comes from Old Norse, which is, I don't know how you'd say it "Ah-Gee" or "Aggie". But it means terror, or dread. Really, it's linked to the Greek word of Akos Arcos, which is an ache, which means pain. So when you're in awe of something, or in wonderment, or in reverence, it's actually the word meaning the root is pain or terror. And I want to start by talking about that for a second because I am. I don't know why that bothers me so much. It's like the care word. You know, what do you mean? It's like, it's, it feels like, it's a duality of what it's meant. meant to mean, right?
Meredith (Mer) 1:34
This is so interesting. Right? Yeah. It's like, we're using the words, we don't even know what we really are saying. We don't.
Naomi (Nay) 1:44
And I wonder if that's part and parcel of the issue.
Meredith (Mer) 1:46
That's the problem. That's a problem.
Naomi (Nay) 1:50
like, everything's lost. Its, its meaning, like, we throw things around. And then they're, they're used without, without deeper understanding. But I mean, unless things evolve, words evolve, right? I mean, some of the words the way we communicate, like we were talking about the other day, it's like, you know, it's just part of culture and the modern way of expressing oneself. So there could be that going on, too. But so the reason, I mean, we're talking about this, because I read a really cool article, I skimmed an article the other day about, you know, how that there's now some scientific evidence that that supports this notion that all is a real thing that can be measured, like they did an analysis with a large sample size. And they looked at how how, how people react to rainbows in landscapes versus, you know, a bright blue sky versus something that has something that would, you know, trigger or, like we had talked about recently, like, when you're standing at the top of a mountain, or by the side of an ocean, and how it allows you to, you know, you feel this sense of almost smallness. And I wonder if that's where the root of the fear is where it's like, in that moment of insignificance. Is it? You know, I don't know, I'm struggling with that a little bit.
Meredith (Mer) 3:23
So this is sort of what I that's what I this is where I place it. So right, I'm going to geek out for a moment, right, so in Kant's Third Critique, The Critique of Judgment. There, he talks about aesthetic, aesthetic, aesthetic judgment, aesthetic experience, and he talks about the sublime, which is experience is like when you're experiencing something that is so overwhelming. It's like the beauty of the end of the peak of a mountain, right? It's this overwhelming, it's like, beyond beautiful. It's, it's sublime. And there's like a, it's not just about pleasure and pain, because it's, there's pleasure. And I think there's all kinds of you talked about BDSM we want to go there, but I think that its ability to contain certain experiences. And it's like, I think when you're at the edge of that, like as you're expanding your nervous system to, to contain certain it's uncomfortable. It's terrifying. Maybe you feel the limits of your own body. Or it's like the feeling of like, like this solution. Or merging or greater than, you know, the ego. We talked about the ego, the other, like, this morning. And it's like, you know, in the face of something like a mountain or a beautiful sunset, like, where's the ego? Like, the ego isn't significant? It's sort of scary.
Naomi (Nay) 5:17
Right? So why do we crave it? Why do we crave it right? Because in this article, actually, they refer to sunrises and sunsets being perceived as the, the most desired effect, because and there's an element of, because it's ephemeral as well. So I think awe inspiring events that are ephemeral have even more impact, like, they refer to a rainbow or sunsets and sunsets. But why, why that also so desirable, if it's triggering this discomfort, right? That's the, it's at odds with what we would want to do to be comfortable, because we're always trying to, you know, we talk about pursuing pleasure, but really, we're really avoiding we live to avoid pain, right? So. So what would be your take on that?
Meredith (Mer) 6:19
So, I think because there's this greater, like, we have this greater sense, like, even though it's uncomfortable, or terrifying, right, like, we're not our egos we're not or body or their bodies can be bigger than our bodies. But I think that that's also like, we're, like, where the greatest fulfillment also lies. Like, there's, like, there's, like, in that, in that oneness. And you know, like, We are the rainbow like, We are the We Are the mountain. Like they're like, I feel like there's a yearning for that greater experience, if we can, it's almost like weight training for our nervous systems. If we can, as we know, we love we'd love the rainbow. And like, maybe then we can love the the summit of the mountain or, you know, what I mean? Love is love pleasurable or painful? Like, I feel like it's my love.
Naomi (Nay) 7:17
Well, you know, actually, there's another word like that: passion. Right? Which, yes, right? I mean, it's like the passion. Right, and when you look up the, with the etymology, and the origin of passion, it comes from pessoa or Passio, it is, which is Latin "pati", which is suffering. Right? So it's almost like, you know, in yoga, they, they, they always say, don't forget the other side, or it's like, if you stretch your arm up, you gotta like, pull the left leg back. So you're always in balance. And I wonder if there's an element of equanimity and balance to all this, where it's like, you need to have that edge, that, that, that suffering that pain, that fear, to be able to... I don't know, is it like realizing your mortality? That then is a gateway to invite you to experience something bigger?
Meredith (Mer) 8:25
Yeah, no, I think I mean, like, I feel like we exist in life always. Like, we exist in certain, like, phases, like not, like, I think a lot about phase transition, like water, you know, is it solid or liquid or gas? Right? Right. And it's like, we also exist the different phases, and like, maybe, like, I think maybe phase transition is terrifying, or uncomfortable or suffering. And it's not like, we want to, but we want to do it, because we want to experience all the different phases. So like, the, you know, picking up the kids from school is one phase, but then, you know, enjoying, like, some awesome experiences and other things. And maybe it's the, you know, part of part of what we want is to have that variety of
Naomi (Nay) 9:18
maybe, yeah, I mean, that makes that makes sense. You know, you're making me think about something which it's a bit of a non sequitur, but it's around taking time to transition and you're talking about these phases. And you know, in one of our other conversations, we were talking about the slack and the rubber band being pulled too tight. And, you know, if you don't give yourself time to transition, you you stay stuck, right. And there's pain in that like, here's a very simple daily example right? You're you go to the office you work, you come home, you keep your work with you. And then you start, you know, reuse, something happened earlier in the day and you're, you're still there and you're not in the presence preventing you from being in the new present moment, because you haven't given yourself time to transition, right? So there's this, there's this belief that if you even just sit in your car, whatever for three minutes and breathe, right, and then you're going to release that you're going to transition, you're going to move into the next space with a new dynamic with a new set of energy with a new set of intentions. And therefore transition. Is that similar to what you're talking about, are we talking about something? Are we talking about two different things?
Meredith (Mer) 10:41
Yeah! I mean, I think I think that that is totally a transition, as well, um, you know, that the, your, the way that you it's, like, you're my work, or, you know, what environment is different from the way that you exist in another? Right. And, you know, I guess the other question is, like, how do you? How do you experience the transition? Um, I mean, is it is it? Is it suffering? Is it? Yeah, I mean,
Naomi (Nay) 11:23
do you think it's a choice, though? Do you think it's a choice? Like, do you think you can choose? Is it is it something conscious? Or do you think, coming back to this? Or the space of awe? Or any, any kind of transitional or big experience like this is? Is it a choice? Can you choose? Is it or is it so big? That it's beyond you?
Meredith (Mer) 11:43
So, yeah, I mean, so I think that you can be like, so disconnected and dissociated, perhaps, like maybe you don't see it, you don't experience it, or anything, like sometimes events come along, that are so big, you can't know that you're gonna get you no matter what. But you know, these are all about, like, sense perception, and, and sensitivity. And I think it is possible to sort of not experience it. I think it's, I think, you know, that's where different people have different sensitivities. Someone's moved by music, someone's moved via art, or someone by a rainbow. And you're just think that's part of the variety and like,
Naomi (Nay) 12:35
Do you think do you think we seek it out? Do you think we, we, I mean, there's a I'm not talking about thrill seekers, I'm not talking about people who choose, you know, have a bucket list of things like bungee jumping, flying out of airplanes. I'm not talking about that, right. But I'm talking about like, any, I mean, we live on the water, right? So so anytime, and we get rainbows all the time, which is fabulous. And one of the most amazing things about seeing a rainbow over the ocean is that it's actually it's a full circle, right? Because when you when you're seeing it from a different angle, you don't get the full the full expression of it. But I mean, I, whenever my husband or my kids say, oh my gosh, mommy, there's a rainbow. I'm like a seven year old child running to the window to go see the rainbow. So it's like, it's literally the it's I'm gonna drop everything to go see it. Like, do you ever get desensitized from that? And or do you think you go out to seek? Of course, I know people who will set their alarms wake up early, sit and watch the sunrise, right? That's part of their ritual. That's something they seek out. But do you think we wait for these awe inspiring things to happen to us? And then that not process them? Or do you think there's an opportunity? I think there's people that go out and look for it and go seek it out?
Meredith (Mer) 13:59
Oh, wow, that's interesting. Um, I think there are people that go out and seek these certain like, awe inspiring moments, but I think there is something that seeking, like, I don't even know if you I don't even know if it would work. And you can see all right, you know, if it has to be this sort of like spontaneous event, but it definitely do. I think there's been a lot of people are doing with like all these ayahuasca journeys and things like that. It's like chasing after these kind of, maybe peak experiences or on spikes experiences. Yes. And I also think it's interesting, I know this is also like, maybe not like I listen to a book on Peter Levine. I think, just experiencing and it's like, no, you can maybe be turned off to certain awe inspiring experiences, you know, through trauma, right? To want to avoid that.
Naomi (Nay) 14:59
It's too much. It's too much to feel.
Meredith (Mer) 15:01
You can't Yeah, yeah, I think you're on the opposite. And then you can definitely want to go out and pray that experience more. But like, I don't know, if that's something you can reproduce like that. You know, right. You know, that's
Naomi (Nay) 15:15
"Waking the Tiger". That's what it is. Yeah. Okay.
Meredith (Mer) 15:21
Other thing from like, is as infinite precious value every moment is awe inspiring. Right?
Naomi (Nay) 15:33
I would agree completely with that. I would agree. And I think it's one of the most undervalued elements of life, I really do. What you like meaning that every moment is new, every moment is renewable. Every moment. And you know, sometimes my kids will say, Okay, I'm having a bad day. We're gonna, you know, at the end, especially when they're tired, the end of the day, I'm having a bad day, tomorrow's a new day. And it's and it's hard with kids, especially when they're tired. They've hit their wall, but it's just a reminder that, no, you don't have to wait till tomorrow to turn the page to start, you can start now. Now. Now, every moment is renewable. Right?
Meredith (Mer) 16:15
Yeah. And that's, like, also terrifying, right? It's like,
Naomi (Nay) 16:19
I have to start over. I have to
Meredith (Mer) 16:23
just like, Oh, my God, it's fleeting. And, and, and also, I gotta get let go of all my preconceptions, or, you know, all of the like, you know, I don't know if I want that. Or if I want to remote be all inspiring. Like, it's definitely that. That's horrible. I gotta get ride of that. Anyway,
Naomi (Nay) 16:44
I know, I agree. I, you know, we were talking earlier about you were mentioning about environment, human, I wasn't familiar with the concept.
Meredith (Mer) 16:56
The woo woo science of human design.
Naomi (Nay) 16:58
Yes. Human design, human design. And I just thought that was so fascinating, what you were talking about, because it came up because I was talking about how, you know, I've moved around a lot, and I've lived inland and I've lived on water, on a coast or along an ocean, you know, an ocean or a river. And, as my life has, you know, and my husband feels the same way as well, it's like we are, we feel more complete, we feel more in tune with who we are supposed to be or who we're meant to be, when we are near your water. And there's definitely a longing and something missing when we live inland. And you were, if you could just share a little bit what you were talking about earlier with Human Design and the different different, I was not familiar with that concept.
Meredith (Mer) 17:53
Sure. So like human design, it's like one of the it's a it's sort of New Age woowoo way of making personal decisions. And in human design, there are certain environments that based on your design, you you are right for you. And as you live, sort of more as... they call it, live design as you as you're making the decisions that are right for you, you will naturally gravitate to those environments that right are and and it will feel good and you'll feel the synchronicity, and the same will exist in the market. That's my... So you know, I was living in Rhinebeck didn't feel good move to Kingston you know, a city a small one that New York City but I feel better I you know, synchronicities start happening.
Naomi (Nay) 18:57
What do you define a synchronicity? I just want it because I've, I've heard different people express it differently. I want to make sure we're thinking the same thing.
Meredith (Mer) 19:08
Sure. Okay, so right. It's like, that's a term that Carl Jung came up. Here really gonna do psycho interpretation. As you know, we all give certain weight to certain activities, or certain some certain things that happen, right? Butterflies or unicorns, whatever. And if I and I see that kind of like, it's not like this from a psychoanalytic perspective, it's not that you know, the universe is speaking to me. It's just that I'm looking I see these things in my environment, because that's where my attention is. Right? And I'm picking these things out. So, um, you could also do the other way like, oh, the universe is talking to you, but isn't like the two different
Naomi (Nay) 19:52
so thank you. So that's why that's why I wanted to talk about it just for a second just because I I came across this concept I think we talked about, like a couple years ago now. Um, it with respect to non duality, right? Like it's a lot of these words get used synonymously. But through to Carl Jung and what's interesting is you'll read, there's an author named Dawson church, for example, who speaks of synchronicities, but more in terms of the universe speaking to in the energies like aligning and whatnot. So it's really interesting. And I'm not sure if they are the same thing. But there's definitely two different ways to think about it from what I've seen.
Meredith (Mer) 20:38
And, and you know, what, I don't really think it matters. I think it's like, if you have a special meaning for something, right? Cause of that is important to you, and you move to a place where you're seeing all those meanings pop up. Right, exactly, then
Naomi (Nay) 20:56
who cares? Right,
Meredith (Mer) 20:57
in the right place? Exactly. It doesn't matter is it doesn't matter. I mean, you know, we can talk about the source of it. But I don't think the end result is like, yeah, you want to be in a place that's meaningful to you. Like, that's right. That's
Naomi (Nay) 21:13
it, right? Not the means to the end, but the end, in and of itself, like, or a placebo effect, like, who cares how you got there? It doesn't matter. It's serving you. So that's all that really matters, right? So you have you have you ever heard of a concept called the Overview Effect, I just read about this recently, it's, there's a book actually written about it, where it's the feeling that astronauts have when they go into outer space, and they look down and they see the Earth. And it's almost like this dissociative experience of greatness, which also is a sense of awe. Or it's like, how, how am I this tiny little guy, or girl in a space shuttle here. There's like, billions of people down there living their lives. And I can, like, you know, look at them in between my finger and my thumb from from up here. So it's, it's, it's got to be an absolutely incredible. I can't even imagine what that might feel like.
Meredith (Mer) 22:19
And it's so reorients your, you know, like, the place of you and one's ego and like, what is the body? And like, How are we related to, like, you know, they
Naomi (Nay) 22:28
stayed right,
Meredith (Mer) 22:28
what started the the, like, the, like, an ecology or, or ecological awareness was to look back at Earth and see how fragile it is. Uh huh. And to see all people like, it's like that our body to like, it's right, you know, we just expanded what it means to have a body.
Naomi (Nay) 22:53
Oh, I agree. I, you know, and also, listen, this is another I think we get a whole conversation about this. But like, I feel like we every one of these conversations, we can have, like 19 other conversations that come out of the conversation, but I mean, absolutely. You know, there's this this idea that I recently started meditating. And I was overwhelmed by it. So I read about these headbands that you can put on your forehead called, which are like at home EEG devices.
Meredith (Mer) 23:29
But it's like, it's in like, it's my kids' closet. And I've never used I bought it like, I want to see like a year and a half ago. I've never used it. I'm like, what a waste of money.
Naomi (Nay) 23:38
I found it really helpful because...
Meredith (Mer) 23:40
I use it. Yep.
Naomi (Nay) 23:42
I mean, it you should try to at least the one I use is called Muse. I just, you know, I don't even know, I think I read or listened to a podcast and someone mentioned it and I did some research and this sort of seems to be you know, the, the right mix of price point and scientific data. So there's this idea that we can through meditation, and through our own self control, we can control our brainwaves, right, and that we are all vibing and we're in these elevated frequencies and our society, you know, the way we live today, we're in these high beta modes and which is linked to states of unwellness. Right, and I don't want to say the C word, but you know, like it's been linked attributed to that and part of calming ourselves calming our nervous system is getting down into the theta, you know, into the lower frequencies. And so there's to come back to what made me think of this is there's this idea that that the earth also as we know has certain frequencies right? I mean, we know the core the earth is magnetic and that we are living In a magnetic fields, and as a result, we are all interconnected. And I wonder if you know, that is part of this pain pleasure dichotomy of awe that we're coming back to. It's
Meredith (Mer) 25:18
moving into something else of a different vibration. Yes, yes. And it's like you need to get in tune with the vibration. Whatever you're experiencing.
Naomi (Nay) 25:31
Exactly, exactly. And then you have this moment where you see something extraordinary feels something ephemeral, extraordinary. And you're suddenly brought into that frequency, you're suddenly expanded or descended or mostly sometimes ascended, I suppose. But into that frequency, and it is. Wow, you want more of it? Right? Because it feels can't put your finger on what it is.
Meredith (Mer) 26:00
And it's terrifying, you know, and that's the thing. That's like, you know, you can't like the attachment. Right? It's like can't be It can't be attached to this.
Naomi (Nay) 26:12
Every moment is new. Every moment. Exactly. Every moment is new. Every moment is new.
Intro / Outro 26:24
Did you enjoy this week's episode of Monday Marinade with Mer 'n Nay? If so, join us next week as we explore a new topic in our podcast, with the goal of helping you kickstart your week, have a better day and ultimately thrive. Every Monday Marinade is an opportunity to soak up new recipes for your mind. So you can unleash your greatness, ignite your inner fire and inspire. Till next week!
