Freedom
Episode #0001
Intro / Outro 0:00
Monday marinade with Mer 'n Nay. A recipe for your mind. Soak it up!
Naomi (Nay) 0:09
What is our first topic that we would like to discuss today?
Meredith (Mer) 0:11
Freedom!
Naomi (Nay) 0:16
It's a we're told it's our unalienable right? Is that is that? Is that not what we were told growing up?
Meredith (Mer) 0:24
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Is that like free to? I mean, I think that we do, you know, it's like so basic. I mean, we all are supposed to be free, and that's why we have ...that's why we're constantly fighting for, for rights for people for fighting against inequality and and survive the course carceral
Naomi (Nay) 0:56
Yeah, and then, and then you have the whole other equation of it's there you have it, you're bathing in it, and you're not even grateful for it. And you don't even realize, until you leave the comfort of whatever you're doing that oh, my gosh, I have so much here. And I'm trying to go for more, and I'm trying to get more and it's like, I don't even appreciate and use what I have here in my own in my own daily life. Right. I mean, I know, I'm guilty of that.
Meredith (Mer) 1:25
Oh, absolutely. You know, like, we're, yeah, there are many stories in prison of people writing, like, that's where they find their, their freedom, like freedom is something that you take with you. You know, somebody that is also give, you know, the freedom of movement is something that this that the state or environment gives you, but there's an inner freedom that everyone can have access to,
Naomi (Nay) 1:51
Of course, and I mean, listen, I don't know how political we want to get in these conversations, but like living in Florida, and the whole band book thing, I mean, I feel like that is,...you know, like, this is supposed to be a state. That is, that stands for freedom, right? Like the freedom to bear arms, the freedom to say COVID never existed. But I mean, and listen, I love living here, I absolutely adore being a Floridian and identify as a Floridian and I absolutely love living here. But it's like, I feel like, you know, banning books like seriously like that, like, what, how that's just like, that's, that has so many depths of layers of, of removal of freedom, like we could talk about that in and of itself for like, two hours, you know, it's like,
Meredith (Mer) 2:42
it's like, I mean, I think of like Paulo fear and like, how do we raise our consciousness? Like, how do we become more aware? And it's like, well, you know, we can just read and discuss, you know, like, through reading and discussion, like, we will transform like, that's like a whole, like a lot of, you know,
Naomi (Nay) 3:02
I agree, but back to the comment I made earlier about, like, where we're not even realizing what we have, like, I listen as a marketer who has been trained to leverage tools like social media, to, to sell things, any widget, a service, whatever. You know, it is, it is very easy, sadly to entrap a consumer of you're a human to aid them and giving up the freedoms that they have to spend their time to make decisions to. You know, and and, and to piggyback on what you just said, it's the most foundational one is is the spiritual freedom, like being aware that you have the freedom because we so readily give it up. We give it up to swiping, we give it up to numb sculling Netflix binges. Which Listen, I I enjoy doing, but it's a conscious choice. You don't I mean, it's like tonight, I'm going to choose to sit and binge watch NetFlix, as opposed to all the next episodes loading Next, Next Next, swipe, swipe, swipe, and all of a sudden, you know, you've given up I think that is a huge part of the dysfunction of how we live right now is just not acknowledging that. You have the freedom to turn it off. Walk away, not be controlled.
Meredith (Mer) 4:49
I mean, I think and, and it's sort of funny, right? Because it's like, yeah, like, we're like, we're conscious of our choice. Like I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go Um, I am going to binge watch this show, or I'm going to like binge listen to this podcast or like, for me, it's like very cheesy music. I'm right there with you, I usually find my secret stash of a space and color. So, you know, there are no secrets. But yeah, so it's like a choice I'm going to do this. It's like is like, is, it's like, is that even? Like, there's still like a level of freedom, where it's like, I am not free enough not to need this. There is like, even greater freedom still, for me. Under Well, what if? What if I don't need this? And
Naomi (Nay) 5:49
tell me what what does that mean? What do you mean, if you don't need like, need? Like?
Meredith (Mer) 5:54
What? Like, you know,
Naomi (Nay) 5:58
like walking away from it altogether?
Meredith (Mer) 6:00
Like, if I, you know, I don't know what the experience would be, since I don't have that. But I can imagine that, you know, it's like, I'm tired. At the end of the day, i don't i i might be I feel like depleted or exhausted, or I like a big fight with someone or just like, you know, negotiating our work, whatever, my kids. And I'm like, guys want to, I'm going to make a choice. I'm going to I'm going to watch this, right? I'm gonna watch this thing. But maybe there's another feeling where it's just like, I'm just I have these feelings. And I don't have to do anything about it. I can just like, sit with it. And like, there is no nothing has any pull knock has any pull on me.
Naomi (Nay) 6:47
Right. But I think I think your your, your, your your we want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Right. But I think there's a lot of people that wouldn't even be aware, right? Like, wouldn't even be aware that that was happening, like they wouldn't even realize that was happening. And well, no, it's just entertainment. It's just escape. It's just but but you know, it's I'm choosing this, so therefore I am. I'm in my freedom. Yeah.
Meredith (Mer) 7:24
Is not freedom. That's the whole
Naomi (Nay) 7:26
Right. Right. I know, I have a tendency to confuse the two for sure.
Meredith (Mer) 7:32
Oh, my God. It's all the time. Like, that's what we're taught. I'm so free. I can do whatever I you know, yes, my children, right. Like, it's a free country, I can do what I want. Right. And I mean, like, that's one kind of freedom, but not really. It's not. It's not we have so we have so many choices today. But yet, I mean, I think I think that all of modern, I think like since probably the whole since the beginning of the patriarchy. Like, with monotheism, like 5000 years ago, there's been really no freedom. But I don't think anyone knows what it means to be free. Maybe some people do. But
Naomi (Nay) 8:11
well, I, a while ago, you did a retreat. And I remember you telling me when you came back, that everything, nothing felt real. And that what you mean, I sorry, if I'm not paraphrasing it correctly, but I remember you saying something like, when you were there, that was real. And then you came back to what is supposed to be our reality. And that did not feel real. And I wonder if there was some elements, you know, elements of you achieving a higher level of freedom that maybe you want to talk about? Or maybe I missed remembering what you said,
Meredith (Mer) 8:48
No, you totally are remembering. I feel so seen.
Naomi (Nay) 8:55
Well, I think it was a conversation. I well, it marked me, I mean, it really marked me because I was honestly, I've been wanting to do something like that for years. Remember when I left my corporate career, that was the first thing I wanted to do. And I've been I was too chicken you know what to do it I and I continue to be to chicken and it's happening
Meredith (Mer) 9:19
again. It happened in July. I just got it last week.
Naomi (Nay) 9:25
Oh, you know, and and then but then it really marked me what you said because there's so much noise in the way we live every day. Right and and I just wonder if you being I mean, I'm gonna say air quotes isolated, but you weren't. If anything, it probably gave you access to a whole other another level that most of us don't have access to.
Meredith (Mer) 9:49
You know, it was bad. It was fascinating. And, you know, at least my experience of all of these things were looking for like to do have a vision. Like you know, people like people came out with a This man like had like instructions of what to do. And I'm like, Oh, yeah. Like, I was a Yeah. So I'm like, you know, I, like I saw a spider web, which is like, also the most profound and beautiful experience to have, like, I like, that's what I did. Like I, like I had that experience. And that's, that's a message for me. But, yeah, I had this profound experience in AI too. I mean, there's so many, but the first one was coming out of this, you know, and seeing, you know, there were a bunch of us that were all isolated, 14 women, we came back. And everyone was like, just truly themselves. It was like, everyone was acting who they were. And I didn't mean there wasn't conflict, like there was like, for like, the most beautiful conflict. And it was and there was no like jockeying for power that it was like, it was like this natural, it was like a spider spinning its web. It was like, it was just like, life was happening.
Naomi (Nay) 11:02
Do you think it lifted the facade like, like, like you were able to be truly congruous and reunite your let's say, your personal facade your personality with your soul? And And would that be? I would say, that's the ultimate freedom to be completely authentic and genuine, your own genuine self? That sounds fabulous to me.
Meredith (Mer) 11:27
Yeah, no, I think, you know, when you're by yourself, it's like, you don't have like, there's no, you don't have, there's no persona, there's no app, there's no, you don't have to be for anyone else. Right. You know, and I think that after doing that for a while, I mean, four days, not even that much. But I think even after that you come out, and it's like, you don't have to do anything, but you've just been for days of being yourself, right out having to be for anyone else.
Naomi (Nay) 11:55
And how long does that last?
Meredith (Mer) 11:57
How long did not last that long. This thing lasted like three days. But I got out. And the first I was at my friend I and I was like, I'm hungry. So like, we went into Starbucks, and went to Starbucks. And it's just like, Oh, my, it was like, it was like, you know, it's like, so everything's so beautiful. But I'm like looking all this stuff and like the frappuccino or whatever. And I'm like, You know what? I'm like, I don't want any of this. Like, it just it didn't it didn't seem real. I'm like, right. You know, and and it also, and
Naomi (Nay) 12:31
did it help you like distinguish between what you wanted versus what you need? Maybe as well?
Meredith (Mer) 12:36
Oh, yeah. Well, so I mean, again, I lost that really quickly. But
Naomi (Nay) 12:40
I mean, we are, we are here mortals living in a very,
Meredith (Mer) 12:44
like, Give me that. No, but like for that one day, I was like, oh, you know, I actually I'm like, not it. I'm like, I'm, I'm okay. Like, there is nothing like I don't want to, you know, and, and that, and it wasn't like a struggle. You know, we were talking earlier about, like dieting or whatever. And it's like, it wasn't a struggle. It was just like, my natural state was like, I don't want to property now.
Naomi (Nay) 13:10
So do you think that truly being free is being completely certain of your convictions like unwavering conviction? Do you think that's part of it? Or do you think it's something else? Like what would what do you define freedom as? What does it mean to you?
Meredith (Mer) 13:36
Then you have to define it. So it's my choice. I don't think
Naomi (Nay) 13:41
now I have confused it with that for up until recently. I really have it because really, you have a freedom to choose. Right? You have the freedom of choice. But that is not freedom in and of itself. I think it's like
Meredith (Mer) 13:56
the freedom to be truly yourself. It's like the deer. Like I'll tell you this. I tell you if I did this weekend. No. I slept on Emily Dickinson's grave.
Naomi (Nay) 14:11
No. Oh, I saw that you posted that. I wasn't sure what it was that I was gonna ask you about it. But anyway,
Meredith (Mer) 14:18
it was really it was fun. Anyway, I drove over there driving over to Massachusetts, I saw my big fear. I didn't really I'd never been to her grave before. And I'm like, I didn't know. I had this fear that a bear would come and eat me. That actually was like an unfounded fear. In the middle of this big city. There were no bears. But as I was driving, I saw this bear rambling on the side of the highway. Like, oh, my gosh, oh, yeah, it was nuts. Not not. But, you know, the bear does not have freedom. The band was on a freedom to be a bear because it is constrained by this highway in this system. So it's like Freedom is the freedom to be the bear. Like right That is a freedom to be just like the freedom to. And there is choice involved in that. And there is like, like a lot, but that Freedom is the freedom to be yourself. Like, that's what the you know what what is that? Whatever. But that Oh,
Naomi (Nay) 15:18
I listen Mer, I am so with you I really am I, you know, I think this is linked to something we were talking about earlier where, you know, it's like, well, why? Why do you go through all these habit changes and then when push comes to shove, and you have a fight or flight moment you like revert back to, you know, something, you've done all this work you've been doing, you've been exercising, eating healthy for a year, and then an event triggers you right, something cataclysmic and then you go back to old habits, like what you would already rewired, you have already changed, right. But it's like, if you didn't, in your soul, believe that you were the type of person who was worthy of this, or able to, and, and that's because truly, you're being incongruent with the way your actions were being incongruent with the feelings of your soul. Right? So it's like, you, you have to do the soul work, I think first to understand, like, who you are. I mean, very simply, like, Who are you because most of how we live, I believe, how we live and act are the some of actions that were in part in us by the people who raised us and our environment or teachers and what and, you know, and first jobs and, and whatnot, and, and those became what we were supposed to do who we were supposed to be, to fit in to be loved to be accepted. Right? So it's like, and isn't that what we're all trying to do here is be heard, to be seen, to be loved, to be valued to feel worthy. And it's like, well, I'm going to do whatever I need to do to feel those things. Because, you know, we want to avoid pain, right? We spend our lives avoiding pain. So if we can find it, like the real freedom is being truly ourselves, like our real soul imprint that we came into the world with, and choosing to live that authentically, but, man, it is so hard because, you know, like, it's hard to be weird or different. Or, you know, it's, it's, it takes a lot of cojones to live that way.
Meredith (Mer) 17:50
I mean, and I think it's not what I mean, I What you said was so beautiful. And I think that everyone has a different process for discovering or revealing or getting in touch with who they really are. They really are. Yeah, and and there really is no who you really are. There's like a process there's like you there's like an unfolding of who you are, like an unencumbered unfolding, like the dare without the highway. And I think there's a everyone has a different way of getting there. And your society, I we've spoken about this is is, um is not created to support that. Now is does not want that we want.
Naomi (Nay) 19:02
We need to they want to we need to be obedient,
Meredith (Mer) 19:04
good consumers. good workers.
Naomi (Nay) 19:07
And listen, it goes back to monotheism. Like you said, God, this is 1000 years old, like there are rules, there are commandments, you must obey them. Or you're not or you're kicked out. Who wants to be kicked out? Okay, I will obey. So I'm different. But then I'm not free to be the real me. That's pretty tragic.
Meredith (Mer) 19:30
it's uncomfortable, sad. I mean, it's it's everybody. It's like everybody. I mean, it is tragic. It's tragic.
Naomi (Nay) 19:41
Yeah. And I'm just answering my own question. Why do I think it is it's like when I think about the modern era, like, I don't know, I haven't done enough Biblical studies to know 5000 years ago, but in the last 100 years, it's for profit, right? It's for profit. It's more I'm gonna sound so anti capitalistic and I'm not. But it's just, you know, it's what we were talking about the other day, it's the school model to match the factory model to create obedience to make you follow the rules so that you can be efficient, right? I mean, that's really what it comes down to. But it is very tragic. I don't want to end this conversation on
Meredith (Mer) 20:21
like capitalistic and I mean, I am, you know, and
I do think that there's something wonderful about 100 view, the, you know, there are all I think that going through this phase in human history, where we do have choice has sort of opened the door for us to understand what what true freedom is, like, I think that this is part of like this sort of awakening, you know, this, this guy I used to meditate with, you know, I said to him, I said, you know, like, we always become humans always been like this, you know, and he's like, and he anything, I believe there was a time, and this is what all the religions talk about, like all the merits of like, a golden age, where everyone was, everyone was fooling themselves. You know, there, there is there maybe was a time once when everyone was fooling themselves, right? Everyone was free. And then whatever happened, patriarchy, who whatever. And now we're, you know, ferment for a long time. Only maybe a few people knew what freedom was, or, you know, we were so it was so hard to survive that, right? You don't even know. But even even in hard survival, you can still be free. But I think that now, you know, it's a wonderful thing. It's a wonderful thing. You know, you're to strive for equality, you know, for the rights of all people to be able to have access to basic needs. I mean, this is wonderful.
Naomi (Nay) 22:10
And I agree, and we've never lived exactly, right. We've never lived in a time like this where we all if you think about Maslow's pyramid, right? Like all our basic needs are met, we have shelter. I mean, listen, I would say more than ever before, right? I want to say
Meredith (Mer) 22:31
not everyone does it, but more than ever before. And it's like a past. Like we could theorize like we could feed the world. Like that is possible. Like we could house a world like why there's homelessness in New York City is disgusting.
Naomi (Nay) 22:44
It is disgusting. I know.
Meredith (Mer) 22:46
And so like, but past. I don't know, if they're, if we you know, in the Middle Ages, could you've really said oh, yeah, we're gonna feed everybody. I don't think that was possible, necessarily. Yeah.
Naomi (Nay) 22:57
Yeah. And, you know, we haven't talked about values. And I think that's a conversation for another day. But I think values have changed also, like, societal values, religious values, maybe not religious values, but you know, societal values. I totally think
Meredith (Mer) 23:11
certain religions. Absolutely. Yeah, spiritual
Naomi (Nay) 23:16
values, spiritual values have changed and have evolved. Some for the best, some are better. So much, but, but it's true. We are definitely in an era where there's an opportunity to thrive rather than survive, right? I mean, there's many people talking about this, like, how to how to, you know, like, everyone in the personal development space is talking about that, right? It's like, you assume you have everything and it's like, but you're still not happy. It's like, well, why aren't you happy? You have everything you need, right? It's like, okay, well, but, but, you know, there's a whole other level, and I think it does tie back to this topic of freedom, I think there's a lack of awareness of being, you know, able to be congruent with who we really are at our core. And that's a huge undertaking, though. Like, if everyone were to do that. If everyone were to self examine themselves, truly, genuinely. I don't even know that most people would want to do that.
Meredith (Mer) 24:19
That, to me is the only way. Like the that is the like, that's the only way. That's the only way.
Naomi (Nay) 24:28
I used to work. I used to work with a woman a few years ago, you know, they do in corporate America do what's called 360 feedback, right? And, and this particular company I was working for did not do it. And I remember bringing it up once in a in a leadership meeting. And this woman kind of was like, why would why would I do that? And I could like she was genuine. She didn't understand why you would do it. I'm like, because how do you how how do you grow? How do you develop how do you make yourself a better person like you have to suffer? It's like, well, I don't want to hear what all the bad things people have to say about me. It's like, well, what about all the good things people are gonna tell you too? And I was like, Wow, what an interesting mindset. That's just okay to be how you are and they take me as I am, you know, suck it up. This is me, like, take me or leave me. kind of bad. But um, I think Meredith we are we have been chatting for we are over 20 minutes and we are at a time when I could do this for another half an hour. But we did say we were going to be we're going to try we're
Meredith (Mer) 25:35
This is a container. We've made it this time.
I love talking today.
Naomi (Nay) 25:43
Absolutely love talking to you. I feel like we could probably continue talking about this topic. We'll have to have a chapter two at some point.
Intro / Outro 25:56
Did you enjoy this week's episode of Monday Marinade with Mer 'n Nay? If so, join us next week as we explore a new topic in our podcast, with the goal of helping you kickstart your week, have a better day and ultimately thrive. Every Monday Marinade is an opportunity to soak up new recipes for your mind. So you can unleash your greatness, ignite your inner fire and inspire. Till next week!
